Curse

Magus · May 26, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

There are two main reasons I would like a "kick" function in parties (namely for missions). I think having either a majority or unanimous (except for the one being kicked, of course) vote required to kick someone would be reasonable. Another way to do it is to give the party leader the power to kick at will, although I think the voting would work better.

The first, and obvious reason is to get rid of assholes and griefers, or just noobs who are detrimental to the party either tactically or socially.

The second, much more important reason is that many players abuse the lack of a kicking function by joining parties for missions and then AFK-ing. Doing so, they are able to both level up easily (this is worse than botting, in my opinion, since you are leeching off of the work of others) and progress in the game more easily (if the party you're leeching off of does win, you get a free ticket to the next town). This also hurts the legitimate party members, since they get one less member to work with. I have seen this very commonly, so please, Arenanet, do something about this.

The need of a vote gets rid of possible abuse from those with the power to kick. For example, your group could get far in a mission, then kick everyone, and instantly grab all of the now unclaimed items. Also, if voting is implemented, please make the window very easy to see, such as a dialogue window popping up in the middle of your screen (and possibly have a field for the one who starts the vote to state the reason for the kicking). If the vote is difficult to see, then it's possible that newer players may not know how to kick people, and the party wouldn't be able to obtain the amounts of votes they need.

Levian Lain · May 26, 2005, 10:43 PM // 22:43

I think a "kick" function, plus a confirmation screen, would be nice during missions.

Though, another solution, is to team up with people you trust more.

Perishiko ReLLiK · May 26, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I'm sorry, but i completely dissagree with this option... it could be abused... say like, some friends get together, and need you only to get past a certain point... We get past the missions hard part, in where they dont need you anymore... and then /votekick you... how would you feel being used // wasting time // not getting that mission... all because some kids are griefing things...

The goal of anet is to take out as much griefing as they can...

I do see your purpose for wanting things like this (as ive seen people go afk from start of mission just to get the mission), and ive also seen people that make up an excuse, such as "I'm stuck on the wall!!", and when we say, hold on there's a cut scene right here... we'll get to it... what are they Actually doing? They're afk, and just griefing the system in there own way... but at least they arent griefing it in a way that's as devastating as what i mentioned above...

One thing ive done against them, is ask for the people in the party to rejoin at the mission stand... and they'll come back to their character just sitting there...

When the person griefing this way isnt near the party, they no longer gain exp (except the 1k exp and the 1 skill point)... and at the end of the mission it only allows you to "accept" items that were dropped near the ending (Since the other's have been on the floor too long, they become "Up for grabs")

Navaros · May 26, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

i agree with the kick function, but i say only the party leader should be able to use it

a vote kicking is a terrible idea considering that most players are really bad at PVE...and when you tell them not to do stupid things, they will often do those stupid things anyhow after repeated warnings from you to not do them. and then when the party leader criticsizes them after they all die; for them playing like complete morons and getting the whole party killed (except for the smart leader), then they will actually turn on the party leader and start scapegoating him for their own acts of moronicism

i've seen this time and time again. every member of my party dies to due to sheer stupidity, except for me. then i tell them to stop playing like idiots, and they all start getting angry at me for calling them on their idiocy

with a vote kick based on majority, it is the bad players who can't own up to their own horrible mistakes and terrible playing, that would be determining who stays in the party. the person who contributes the most to making the party progress through the mission and keeping it alive would be kicked out simply for being honest about how dumb his party is playing.

that would not be justice.

Magus · May 26, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I think how the kicking would actually be used (party leader, vote, etc.) could be decided by Arenanet, since they have much more experience with multiplayer gaming, but I definitely think that a kick function needs to be implemented in some form. With a good system, the kicking abuse could be much less frequent than the AFK-ing abuse.

I agree with what Levian Lain said about teaming up with trustworthy people, but I think that 75-90% of the parties in the game are just pick-up groups, and so they are still plagued with the AFK-ers, who are still able to power-level by leeching off of others.

smitty-gw · Jun 16, 2005, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I have to agree with Magus here.

Last night we were in a mission group and about minutes into it the writing on the minimap started accompanied by the mini-map pinging. It was so annoying.

It took about 10 more mintes to figure out who the clown was. At that point is was unfair to have to restart. Peace was restored when the clown died. We didn't rez him, but had to use rebirth so the healing henchies didn't rez him either...more wasted time for the majority to avoid this one parasite...not fair.

This guy then went afk for about 20 minutes. Things were nice and peaceful.
Unfortunately this bozo was ressurected at the first cutscene and all the nonsense began again immediately.

Near missions end he died again thankfully and we responded in kind. So he sat there writing all over the map and calling us names while we completed the mission for him.

Call me crazy, but that just doesn't seem right. Not only is he leeching at this point, but he is so obnoxious that he ruined the experience for the rest of us.

I know that a "kick' function can and will be abused as ReLLiK said, but I am willing to take that chance. If I join a group of all guildmates then it will be more prevalent, but regular PUG's, I'd say no.

Its time to make some people take responsibility for their actions in on-line gaming. If this kid got booted last night, maybe he would readjust his behavior in the next group he joined. Who knows, maybe he would become a cooperative productive on-line gamer, which is what A-net wants anyway, right?

Galatea · Jun 16, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

If a kick option is ever included, definitely go with "Party Leader" only, none of that vote kicking stuff. In additio, I think Party Leader should have the option to designate someone else as leader -- without having to leave the group, and asking others to leave the group, so the person who should be leader gets bumped to the top of the list to reinvite everyone again. -_-;;

Xight · Jun 16, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I don't like the idea of party leader kicking only. These people that you say that write things on the map, being idiots, afk, annoying etc. Eventually when no group accepts them they'll just start up a group, and grief you more that way.

Example: Ohh a gold item drops. /kicks the person and waits for it to go unclaimed.
Example: I'm being annoying and you can't do anything about it, because if you whine too much I'm going to kick you.
Example: Party leader goes afk.....

By making it party leader only your actually giving griefers the power to grief people further. The vote method makes it better since if the party leader was being a jerk atleast the rest of the party could vote to remove him.

kleps · Jun 16, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magus

The second, much more important reason is that many players abuse the lack of a kicking function by joining parties for missions and then AFK-ing. Doing so, they are able to both level up easily (this is worse than botting, in my opinion, since you are leeching off of the work of others) and progress in the game more easily (if the party you're leeching off of does win, you get a free ticket to the next town). This also hurts the legitimate party members, since they get one less member to work with. I have seen this very commonly, so please, Arenanet, do something about this.

The need of a vote gets rid of possible abuse from those with the power to kick. For example, your group could get far in a mission, then kick everyone, and instantly grab all of the now unclaimed items. Also, if voting is implemented, please make the window very easy to see, such as a dialogue window popping up in the middle of your screen (and possibly have a field for the one who starts the vote to state the reason for the kicking). If the vote is difficult to see, then it's possible that newer players may not know how to kick people, and the party wouldn't be able to obtain the amounts of votes they need.

i agree with both of your points. but why not create a diablo 2 style of experience earning? each of your party members need to be within your "circle of danger" to earn the full experience amount from each killed enemy. the further away from battle you are, the less experience you'd get, if any.

this could also be done with completely missions as you'd have to be nearby the objectives and in harms away to receive the completion and bonuses.

of course, there will always be the good and bad things about it. i dont know if there is any one perfect way to keep everyone happy and keep things fair. but at least this way, you may be seeing a lot less low levels at draknor's and ascension, etc.

Aalric · Jun 16, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I have an idea to make a Kick function that both gets rid of people abusing a team, yet also doesn't allow the function to be abused. Whether or not it is technologically feasible, though, is another matter.

Anybody may use the Kick function. When it is used, a box comes up, with 8 boxes on one side saying, "Yes, and 8 boxes on the other saying, "No". The idea is that each person has one tick to vote whether the person is kicked out or not, and the majority wins.

Once again, I do not know if this is technologically possible, but I think it's a nice idea.

jray14 · Jun 16, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aalric

I have an idea to make a Kick function that both gets rid of people abusing a team, yet also doesn't allow the function to be abused. Whether or not it is technologically feasible, though, is another matter.

Anybody may use the Kick function. When it is used, a box comes up, with 8 boxes on one side saying, "Yes, and 8 boxes on the other saying, "No". The idea is that each person has one tick to vote whether the person is kicked out or not, and the majority wins.

Once again, I do not know if this is technologically possible, but I think it's a nice idea.

This would work well in a utopic gaming community

. But alas, the reason we need a Kick function in the first place is because of the lack thereof. I'm afraid this mechanism would lead to an entirely different form of griefing: kick-vote spamming.

I'm in favor of just keeping it simple and letting the party leader have full control.

Porkchop Sandwhiches · Jun 16, 2005, 08:56 PM // 20:56

During one of the Krytan area missons (Forget the name) We had a "young" player who went AFK for dinner by the shrine and the Confessor while he was holding the Urn for the bonus.

That is just one of the many moments I wished for an option to kick someone!

UberRusty · Jun 16, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I think we will just have to bear with annoying idiots, unless they can counter the ways it will be abused such as Xight mentioned.

Nokomis · Jun 16, 2005, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aalric

I have an idea to make a Kick function that both gets rid of people abusing a team, yet also doesn't allow the function to be abused. Whether or not it is technologically feasible, though, is another matter.

Anybody may use the Kick function. When it is used, a box comes up, with 8 boxes on one side saying, "Yes, and 8 boxes on the other saying, "No". The idea is that each person has one tick to vote whether the person is kicked out or not, and the majority wins.

Once again, I do not know if this is technologically possible, but I think it's a nice idea.

I think a kick function is necessary. I like the majority vote because having 4 or 5 selfish buttheads in a group is less likely than having just a party leader who is a selfish butthead. Just a numbers game.

I would love it if the game could sense that a character hadn't moved or done any action for over five minutes and it would boot any character who was not moving for that long back to the nearest city and out of any mission group.

--Nokomis

Miss Puddles · Jun 16, 2005, 09:35 PM // 21:35

i like the majority vote system too. it seems to work well on cs from my xp.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 16, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

EQ2, DAoC, Lineage2, et al. All have a "kick" function available to the party leader only.
It's an old concept, it's simple and it works.

It offers several immediate benefits:
People who join then go AFK for free mission credit are denied their ill-gotten gains.
Socially challenged persons are thwarted from working their woeful ways upon a otherwise decent group.
It allows PUGs the freedom to operate with strangers, discovering new friends, and simultaneously weeding out the undesirables.

Negatives?
The "socially challenged" will no doubt rail against this. How can they inflict their own personal version of grief on the unsuspecting so easily now?
Ruthless party leaders may "kick" players without warning to invite other class combinations deemed superior. These morons exist in every game - they are doing YOU a favor if you find yourself the recipient of such.

Talesin

Xight · Jun 17, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

One thing about this game is that it doesn't have an auto log off timer.

I once sat in a mission with henchmen one afternoon. Alt-tabbed out, and forgot I had the game on. I came back from work the next afternoon, and found my guys there, with an item on the ground (apparently a patrol or something came through that my hencmen killed).

ANet needs to put a 30 minute timer or something for those people who are inactive for more than 30 minutes-1 hour. For 2 reasons, people going afk during missions etc etc. Also to clear up server space/bandwidth.

theclam · Jun 17, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Vote kicking is good. Party leader kicking is bad. What if it's the party leader who's the one who deserves to be kicked?

Perishiko ReLLiK · Jun 17, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

I'm sorry, but i completely dissagree with this option... it could be abused... say like, some friends get together, and need you only to get past a certain point... We get past the missions hard part, in where they dont need you anymore... and then /votekick you... how would you feel being used // wasting time // not getting that mission... all because some kids are griefing things...

The goal of anet is to take out as much griefing as they can...

I do see your purpose for wanting things like this (as ive seen people go afk from start of mission just to get the mission), and ive also seen people that make up an excuse, such as "I'm stuck on the wall!!", and when we say, hold on there's a cut scene right here... we'll get to it... what are they Actually doing? They're afk, and just griefing the system in there own way... but at least they arent griefing it in a way that's as devastating as what i mentioned above...

One thing ive done against them, is ask for the people in the party to rejoin at the mission stand... and they'll come back to their character just sitting there...

When the person griefing this way isnt near the party, they no longer gain exp (except the 1k exp and the 1 skill point)... and at the end of the mission it only allows you to "accept" items that were dropped near the ending (Since the other's have been on the floor too long, they become "Up for grabs")

Alright, i feel the need to quote myself, considering this is an old thread, re-opened... i personaly feel this would Completely destroy the nearly non-griefable system...

Having a kick function, as i said, is far more aggrivating if griefed, then say, a person who sits, and leaches... because, if you kick them, they're still gone... and you're still out a person, just now, you don't have an extra body to take dmg...

And if you have a person who's rushing in... just keep them dead, it's simple, and they'll normaly leave on their own...

And if you have a person who's luring too much, look at my above statement, and take a twist with it... simply retreat, and regroup with your "sane" partners, and let the maniac die... he'll more then likely call you a newb and leave (there yea go, problem gone)

Give me a good reason (and i mean GOOD) for adding a kick function, and perhaps ill reconsider... but a kick function in an mmorpg is NOT a suggestion, it's a pointless topic that should be ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xight

One thing about this game is that it doesn't have an auto log off timer.

I once sat in a mission with henchmen one afternoon. Alt-tabbed out, and forgot I had the game on. I came back from work the next afternoon, and found my guys there, with an item on the ground (apparently a patrol or something came through that my hencmen killed).

ANet needs to put a 30 minute timer or something for those people who are inactive for more than 30 minutes-1 hour. For 2 reasons, people going afk during missions etc etc. Also to clear up server space/bandwidth.

I agree with this, but i think it should be an option in your options control... because, sometimes i say... get a pizza at the door that i orderd, and i just happen to be in the middle of a quest that was a major pain... and i don't want to get back to the point i've already gotten to... so yes, i agree, and add to the fact that it should be an option.

Osangar · Jun 17, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

yes yes yes for votekick...the number of times people go afk for free rides through missins is staggering. Voting is good if everyone else agrees to kick the person out...out they go...replaced by far more useful hench. How about arena fights too...especially ascalon >.<.

W/Mo lvl 9
M/Me lvl 8
E/N lvl 10

oooh this party looks good...time for some good pvp action!
last person joins...

R/W lvl 2

just along for a free ride and to leech off exp off others hard work.
bleh!